Evengyny Thanks for the memories!

Platicsco Good story, Not enough for a whole film

BoardChiri Bad Acting and worse Bad Screenplay

Lachlan Coulson This is a gorgeous movie made by a gorgeous spirit.

Lars Bosteen This series fails for the simple reason that, while it cannot be expected to cover the topic comprehensively, it should at least provide a reasonably balanced and accurate account. It doesn't. This is despite the use of an impressive array of academics; one can only assume they were not involved in the shaping of the final product.There are some jaw-dropping omissions, especially given that the title mentions 'Greeks' rather than 'Athenians'. In terms of influence on western civilization, there is no doubt that Athens was by far the most important of the Greek city states. However, if this documentary were to be the only source of information on Greece in the classical period, one would be (falsely) led to believe that (1) almost all the great Greeks were Athenians, (2) that practically everything about Sparta was bad, (3) that city states such as Thebes were of little or no significance (there was little or no mention of many important states), and (4) that the Battles of Thermopylae and Plataea never happened.This last point is particularly unforgivable considering how much Thermopylae continues to be discussed today (though too many people omit the fact that it wasn't just 300 Spartans who died there - the 700 Thespians deserve just as much credit). To say that the Persian threat ended at Salamis in 480 BC is just plain wrong; an army of at least 80,000 Persians remained on Greek soil and was defeated by a Greek army under Spartan leadership in 479 BC, with Sparta providing the largest contingent. While Athenian democracy is rightly lauded, no mention is made of the fact women were not only excluded but expected to keep quiet too (unlike Sparta where women were not only allowed to express their views but were also taught to read and write). Further, these Athenian male democrats owned lots of slaves and suppressed (sometimes ruthlessly) dozens of previously independent Greek city states to build their empire.The treatment of The Peloponnesian War is all too brief and uneven. While quite some time is spent on the plague, the Sicillian expedition, and the prosecution of the generals, no mention is made of the heavy involvement of major states such as Corinth and Thebes (as part of the Spartan-led Peloponnesian League opposing the Athenian empire) who wanted to raze Athens to the ground at the end of the war (they were prevented from doing by Sparta), nor the reason for the eventual involvement of the Persians. Also hard to fathom is the failure to have at least a brief look at that most fascinating of characters, the Athenian statesman and general Alcibiades, a key figure during the war (and surely worth a documentary of his own).Even if the series was re-titled 'The Athenians', it would be hard to excuse the above sins of omission. Without proper context, it is impossible to properly appreciate the influence of the Greeks on western civilization. Sadly, this documentary is more like a series of sometimes distorted reproductions of random scenes from the classical period.

worleythom Greeks: Crucible of Civilization, 1999.Rise and Fall of Athens, 561–399 BCE.6th century BCE, Athens a small city ruled by self-interested aristocrats over serfs and slaves. Life expectancy at birth less than 15 years. Literacy rare. No science nor medicine. Life nasty, brutish, short, tough. Egypt and Persia are great civilizations. Greece has many warring city-states. Sparta is military power; Corinth trading power; Argos ancient. "Greeks were like frogs around a pond (the Aegean)"—Plato (c. 426–348 BCE).c. 561 BCE, Peisistratos becomes benevolent tyrant of Athens by coming to town with a tall girl he says is Athena. Reduced taxes, free loans to build farms: more vines and olives. Athens rises as economic power. Olives meant food, cooking oil, lubricant, fuel, soap, trade.Pottery begins to have realistic life drawings. One pot is inscribed, "Euthymides, son of Polias, drew this. And I'll bet Leuphronias couldn't have managed it".527 BCE, Hippias succeeds his dead father as benevolent tyrant.514 BCE, Hippias becomes mad tyrant after murder of his brother. Strips commoners of freedoms.510 BCE Hippias banished.508 BCE Isagoras becomes tyrant w/help of Spartans; exiles 700 households, dissolves council. Athens mob revolt: first time in history, commoners seize power. Cleisthenes (born c. 570 BCE) institutes democracy: citizens gather every 9 days to vote on civic matters."Athenian democracy is a very different sort of democracy from ours. One has a sense, as an Athenian citizen, that you really can make a difference."—Paul Cartledge, Cambridge University.Democracy leads to a flowering of civilization and culture.490 BCE Persians land at Marathon. Phidippides, Athenian citizen, runs 26 miles to Athens. Athens sends 10,000 hoplites with bronze weapons and armor, of a population of 20,000 to 30,000. Athens runs off Persian army of 20,000, killing 6,000.483 BCE a vein of silver is found near Athens, worth 100 talents ($20 million in 1999 dollars). General Themistocles (c. 524–459 BCE) persuades Athenians to spend it building a fleet of 200 triremes (170 oarsmen per ship).480 BCE Persian army sets out for Athens, reportedly nearly 2 million men. Athens is evacuated and burned. Themistocles tricks Persian emperor Xerxes into bringing his fleet into straits of Salamis, where Athenian navy destroys 200 of Xerxes' 800 ships. Persians leave, defeated. 472 BCE Themistocles is exiled (ostracized).c. 461 BCE Pericles (c. 495–429 BCE) comes to power. By 450 BCE Athens has a de facto empire in the 200-member Delian League. Unprecedented quality of life and wealth. 447–432 BCE Pericles directs building and adornment of Parthenon, temple to Athena. Pericles divorced his wife and took hetaira (courtesan) Aspasia (c. 470–400 BC) as a partner.Aeschylus (c. 525–455 BCE); Sophocles (c. 497–405 BCE); Euripides (c. 480–406 BCE) tragedians.Anaxagoras (c. 510–428 BC) first to realize moon is lit by sunlight.Herodotus (c. 484–425 BCE); Thucycides (c. 460–395 BCE) historians.Socrates (c. 470–399 BCE) philosopher.431 BCE Pericles makes war with Sparta. 150,000 people crowd behind Athens' walls. Spartans burn farms. Supply ships bring plague to Athens: kills over 50,000 Athenians, including Pericles in 429 BCE.429 BCE leaderless, pretenders to power pander to prejudices and passions of the masses to gain support: mob rule; assembly in hands of self-interested despots. Athens never again has a strong, good leader.416 BCE still at war with Sparta, Athens sends 50,000 men to attack a Spartan ally 700 miles away on Sicily. All the men are killed or captured. Athens is never again a military power. Persians help Sparta build and man a fleet.404 BCE, Athens surrenders to Spartan commander Lysander. Athens' walls are torn down, fleet destroyed.399 BCE Socrates is killed as a scapegoat. He was a critic. After death, Socrates becomes a new model of Greek hero: a person of conviction and conscience.Athens never again has an empire, but never again descends to mob rule.Plato (c. 426–348 BCE).Aristotle (384–322 BCE).Athens, in 561 to 399 BCE, gave us democracy, politics, science, philosophy, literature, drama, history, art, architecture. Athens at that time set in motion elements of Western civilization that still shape the world today.

MartinHafer I recently watched two exceptional mini-series on both the Spartans and the Athenians for PBS with Bettany Hughes. I cannot imagine making a show about the Greeks any better. Can this documentary (also brought to us by PBS) manage to be as good or better? In some ways, the series is exceptional. It has a more cinematic style and lovely music. However, it also lacked some excitement and could have used more energy. In particular, while Liam Neeson is a fine actor and probably a heck of a guy, his delivery as narrator is a bit too refined and smooth--almost, at times, lulling me to sleep with his lovely voice. Or, perhaps having several narrators with different voices would have been nice. All I know is that although it's a wonderful and quality series, it is, oddly, too refined--too nice. I might have liked more odd or salacious details or interesting vignettes as well--something to infuse a bit more realism and life into the shows. I also hated when one of the commentators used the word 'milieu'. 99% of the viewers probably never use the word and most of them probably have no idea what it means! Overall, I think I prefer Hughes less refined but more interesting style.Although IMDb lists one season, when you click this link, it only shows one program. It actually consisted of three and below is a general idea of what episode entails.Episode 1--This is the early history of Greece (but not discussing the earliest period, such as that of the Minoans)--when the city-states were on the rise (around 600BC). Sparta was the big Greek power but this VERY important state was not really talked about much. Instead, almost all the thrust is on Athens and other city-states were only mentioned in general. Initially, Athens was ruled by Aristos (a small group of the richest citizens) and tyrants and was not yet a major power. However, when Athens institutes democracy, the power and prestige of the city grows. The only odd thing in the episode is a quote from Aristotle about these early leaders--though they lived hundreds of years before he was born (and it sounded as if he was commenting on something about which he had direct knowledge). Usually, they tend to use contemporary accounts in documentaries (they are more reliable--and Aristotle, unfortunately, isn't that reliable in some of his writings).Episode 2--This is the classical period of Athens. It begins with Battle of Marathon (versus Persia) and takes them to other Persian wars. There is a big emphasis on the rise of the Athenian navy. Also the serious flaw with Athenian democracy--the abuse of ostracisms--as they occurred to ANYONE who was famous or powerful. Following victories, the famous period in Athens began and philosophy and the sciences flourished. There is a discussion of two of the great Athenian leaders, Themistocles and Pericles. For the most part, everything is just ducky for the Athenians but the closing minutes indicate big things are in the near future.Episode 3--This episode concerns the fall of Athens. After having grown so fast, the city-state became overconfident and took on the Spartans. More abuses of the democracy served to weaken them significantly, as generals, intellectuals and leaders could be executed or banished at the whims of the masses. Plagues and military setbacks also hindered them. However, the big tipping point came with Sparta and their new ally, the hated Persians--but this was, inexplicably, not talked about in the show. Instead, a HUGE portion of part three is on the death of Socrates--and then the show ends (very prematurely if you ask me as MANY more years of wars and chaos ensued during the Peloponnesian War). Could funding have run out and it was intended to be longer and more complete?! One odd thing was said in this third show: "...here it gave every Athenian citizen the right to have a say...". This is and isn't true. It did NOT give the right to women or slaves or children--so only about 1/3 (at most) of the people had a say in governing the city-state.One final note. While the show is supposedly about the Greeks, it really is ONLY about the Athenians. The Spartans are minor characters (almost faceless bad guys) and the rest of Greece is only mentioned in passing. Because of this, the title of the show is inaccurate and it should have been something like "The Rise and Fall of Ancient Athens" or "The Ancient Greek World...But Mostly Athens".

Pfyre Another well put together PBS documentary. And it certainly doesn't hurt to have Liam Neeson narrate. I certainly learned more in this documentary about the rise and fall of Greek civilization than I recall from school.